Talk:Universal Cracking Language

Canada Whips - 2022-03-020 12:41pm EST

Hey John! Great stuff. I think we're making great progress on this. Just a few quick things we might need to think about:

1. I also played around with the idea for notating pauses, but I found it pretty challenging because its hard to define what constitutes a pause and what doesn't. For example, a lot of beginners will do the Cattleman's Crack too quickly, and I'll tell them to pause slightly after the upswing. But to us, a cattleman's crack doesn't have a pause, that's just the timing of the move. So I'm not sure how to go about it in a way that makes sense. Another example could be the coachman's crack vs. the pig drover. Does one of those have a longer pause than the other? Would we notate them differently?
2. I love the notation for plane/whip location! I think it might look nicer if the planes are lowercase and the motion is uppercase. Like s/@FD, for example.
3. I like the idea for adding a shorthand to signify a reversal in direction, I'm just not entirely sure if it works as easily as it seems. For example, if the cattleman's crack is s/FuFd, we would write s/@Fd. So the person would need to figure out the opposite of Fd. That could be Fu, but it could also be Bd, couldn't it? I guess Bd turns into Fu if it continues its trajectory. Maybe its a non-issue, I'm not sure.
4. I think we need a way to differentiate between motions which cause a crack and ones which don't. Otherwise, I don't see how we can do the notations for moves like the slow helicopter. So far, I think lowercase (swing) and uppercase (crack) is the best way to do that.
5. Maybe we should have a symbol that signifies that the pattern repeats infinitely, or can be started from any crack (like the arrowhead, volley, H4C, etc). Not sure what that would be.

Here are the rest of the patterns from your list using our evolving notation

• Singleton Special - u/of-I
• Slow Helicopter - o/ofobIB o/ifibOB (lol this one is whacky)
• Tasmanian Cutback - b/iuID
• Reverse Singleton Special - u/if-O
• Behind The Back Volley - bx/FD bx/BD (I used bx because its kind of diagonal (at least when I do it))
• Boomerang - o/IFIB
• Breakaway - s/FD s/BD h/-IF
• Carolina Cutback - o/OB

JRC - 2022-03-20 8:00 CST

i decided to take a stab at using the WCN/UCL to explain cracks. i tweaked a few things and had to add a few additional codes.

• added "-" for pause
• changed the 2nd char to lowercase to help differentiate between whip direction and wrist (or maybe cracking) direction
• added planes. i've added the "/" to help differentiate expesically since i'm reusing letters
  • S/ is same side
  • X/ is cross side
  • F/ is in front
  • B/ is in back
  • O/ is overhead
  • U/ is underfoot
  • H/ is horizontal but not overhead or underfoot (for sidearm or pig drover)
• replaced windups with @ because they always seem to just be the opposite of the crack motion

• Arrowhead - S/Fd X/Bd X/Fd S/Bd
• Backhand Flick (frisbee) - X/Of
• Backward Flick (sidearm) - S/Ob
• Backward Flick (underhand) - S/Bb
• Cattleman's Crack - S/@Fd
• Coachman's Crack - S/@F-f
• Cow and Calf (whoosh bang) - S/Fu S/Fd
• Cross Body Cattleman - X/@Fd
• Cross Body Fast Figure Eight - X/Fd X/Bd
• Cross Body Reverse Cattleman - X/@Bd
• Cross Body Slow Figure Eight - X/Bd X/Fd
• Drum Roll - S/Fd S/Fd
• Fast Figure Eight - S/Fd S/Bd
• Fast Helicopter - O/Ib O/Ob
• Hassett's Four Corners O/Ib O/Of O/Ob O/If
• Overhand Flick - S/Fd
• Overhead Backwards - O/@Ob
• Overhead Crack - O/@Of
• Overhead Fast Figure Eight - O/Of O/Ib
• Overhead Flick - O/Of
• Overhead Reverse - O/@Of
• Pig Drover - H/I-i
• Queensland Crossover - O/@Of O/@If
• Reverse Cattleman - S/@Bd
• Reverse Overhead Backwards - O/@Ib
• Reverse Pig Drover H/O-o
• Sidearm Flick - H/If
• Slow Figure Eight - S/@Fd S/@Bd
• Underhand Flick (bowling) - S/Uf
• Victorian Cutback - S/U-d
• Volley - S/Fd S/Bd

• Singleton Special
• Slow Helicopter
• Sydney Flash
• Tasmanian Cutback
• Reverse Singleton Special
• Behind The Back Volley
• Boomerang
• Breakaway
• Carolina Cutback

JRC - 2022-03-11 12:40 CST Justin, i love your well thought out argument for WCN. as i was reading through it, i got to wondering if there are any cracks that have a windup that do not then simply reverse that exact windup in order to do the crack. for instance the cattleman, you suggested fuFD, but i think that (probably) all the windups are just opposites of the crack motions. if i'm correct, then it's probably unnecessary and maybe we have a special character to indicate windup maybe "&" or "@" (just because they kinda looks like whips) then a slow fig 8 would be @FD @BD. in the mean time, techniques that have no windup either have no "&/@" or maybe they have a character that indicates no windup (maybe "|") so overhand flick would be just FD or |FD

another symbol we might need is a pause, maybe a "-". this would be useful to describe a coachman @F-D (but would it be a D or a U??? the crack goes up, but the arc is back downwards). the pause might be useful for cutbacks as well, pig drover might be I-I

JRC - 2022-03-12 9:30 CST a victorian cutback might be @-FD

Canada Whips - 2022-03-010 7:16pm EST

The case for a formalized Whip Cracking Notation (WCN)

In my opinion, one of the challenges in the whip cracking community is the lack of a universal language or terminology that we can use to understand techniques. All of us have experienced trying to explain a technique through text message or something similar: it’s like pulling teeth! If we had an agreed upon terminology it would be much easier to share ideas and communicate with each other. As well, it would be a lot less confusing for beginners who are entering our community and trying to learn.

As an example, a confusing thing is that we use the same words for a lot of different things. The Cow & Calf is also called the Whoosh Bang, the Snake Killer is also known as the Drum Roll, The Boomerang is AKA a Carolina Cutback, and the Underhand Overhead Volley is the Rocking the Cradle is the Chrüzlistreich. You get the idea. Even our most basic technique, the Cattleman’s Crack, is often called “The Circus Crack” or “The Front Crack.” If we can’t even agree on the most simple move in our repertoire, what hope do we have in ever discussing more high level techniques with other people?

We have the exact opposite issue as well: while we use different words to mean the same thing, we also use the same words to mean different things. A good example is the Sydney Flash: Is the Sydney Flash a three crack pattern, a two crack pattern, or a two handed whip cracking routine? In our community, it’s all three, and it can be done in almost every plane and direction around the body too. What hope do we have of communicating if the words we use don’t have distinct meanings, and mean distinct things?

While we are discussing planes and directions, we might as well mention how they relate to the names we often use. The fast figure eight can be done forwards, backwards, cross-body, in front, overhead, and even behind the back. The boomerang, however, can only be done overhead, otherwise its called a cutback. A volley is a volley no matter where it is, but a flick + crack combo is a whoosh bang, or a queensland crossover, or a nameless combination depending on its placement/direction. How is a beginner supposed to navigate that?

And once a whip cracker is ready to start creating their own moves, how do they know when they’ve found something worth naming? There are completely undefined rules for what classifies something as new and different. If a fast figure eight that starts with an overhand flick is called the “Sydney Flash,” what about a volley or arrowhead that starts with the same thing? Why do we have a name for the whoosh bang, but not the reverse cattleman + victorian cutback? Can I do three flicks in a row and call it “Justin’s Cool Movez?” What if it’s two flicks and a pig drover? There’s not a lot of reasoning behind these things, other than “it’s called that because other people call it that.” I guess that’s how language is developed, but still. It’s challenging.

To sum up: we have different words to describe the same moves, and we use the same words to describe different moves. Also, a combination of cracks can have it’s own name (unless it can’t), and new combinations of different cracks should have their own names (unless they shouldn’t). And don’t forget, those names might change depending on direction/plane, too.

I’ve been whip cracking for 15 years and it confused me just to explain that. What hope do beginners have??

To be clear, I’m not advocating for getting rid of the terminology that we currently use: its rooted in a long and cool tradition that we shouldn’t forget. What I am suggesting is a SUPPLEMENTAL system that allows us to communicate more conveniently and to stay on the same page. Developing a Whip Cracking Notation (WCN) would be a lot of work and getting the community on board would be even moreso, but I believe that undertaking this challenge would have two incredibly worthwhile benefits:

1. CONVENIENCE. No more long winded explanations to describe simple movements and concepts. A really good example of this is Rubik’s Cube Notation, where the speedcubing community has designated certain letters to correspond with specific movements in the cube. Imagine I am holding a Rubik’s Cube in my hand and you need to instruct me to make three moves. You would probably say something like:

“Take the side that is in your right hand and turn it up once. Then, spin the front face counter-clockwise. After that, move the piece on the bottom to the right.”

Sure, it gets the point across, but algorithms on a Rubik’s cube aren’t usually three moves long. There can be dozens of moves in a sequence, and you can see how that would take forever to explain. That’s why they developed a system. For those same three moves, now they can just say: “R F’ D”. Three letters! That’s way faster, and there is no way to misinterpret the instructions, either.

I know what you might be thinking: “Yeah Justin, that’s cool and all, but high level whip cracking is a lot more nuanced than moving the pieces on a toy.” Sure, you’re not wrong, but when you think about how often we consider plane and direction this type of notation is still really useful. When we crack the whip, it is almost always in one of six places around our body: in front, behind, on the right, on the left, above you, or under your feet. A cube has six sides, too. And the whip is always spinning in one direction or the other, just like how a Rubik’s Cube moves… Interesting.

2. NEW MOVE CREATION. Having a universal notation with specific rules makes it a lot easier to play with new concepts and tricks in our mind, because it helps us understand the moves that we do and what else might be possible. Take juggling, for example. In juggling, they have “Siteswap,” which is a way to describe all juggling patterns. Siteswaps are sequences of numbers that correspond to juggling patterns based on the height of the throws and whether or not they change hands. A “3” is a low crossing throw, a “4” is a medium non-crossing throw, a “5” is a high crossing throw… You get the idea. Once jugglers had developed siteswap, they tried to apply it to the patterns they already knew. A trick called “Shower” was described by siteswap as 51. “The W” was a 423, and so on.

As siteswap developed, they realized that all of the patterns had things in common. For example, if you took the average of the numbers in the pattern, you could find out how many balls were in that pattern. Cool, right? Once they realized that, they were able to find completely NEW juggling patterns, just by looking at numbers and nothing else. They could write down a series of numbers, see if it followed all of the rules, and then try to juggle it. Lots of new tricks were created this way. People actually found new tricks without touching their juggling balls at all. Crazy, right?

Again, I’m not trying to get rid of the words we currently use. We have a history rich community with lots of incredibly talented people who have become successful with our current terminology, so it would be a real shame to leave our current language in the past. Especially when things like “arrowhead” and “singleton special” are super fun to say! What I am suggesting is a notation to help give more information to people who are trying to learn routines. The volley would still be the volley, but if someone wanted to know what it was without seeing it, they would just need to look at its notation: (FD,BD)*, for example.

Okay, long-winded intro over. Let’s talk about the nitty gritty. This is my suggestion for WCN 1.0. There is still a lot to figure out, and I am happy to completely throw this idea in the trash if nobody is into it. This is just a rough idea of what it could look like.

There are six different directions the whip can be moved: Forwards, Backwards, Left, Right, Up, and Down. For the sake of universality, let’s call Left and Right “Inside” and “Outside,” so that no matter what hand is your dominant hand, the words will still apply. If you’re right handed, “inside” means left, AKA counter clockwise (in towards your body) and “outside” means right, AKA clockwise (out away from your body).

We can shorten those six directions into just the first letter: F, B, I, O, U, & D. You can use any two of these letters to describe almost all ways the whip is moved:

A cattlemans crack starts forward and up, and ends forward and down. FU, FD. An overhead crack starts forward and in, and ends forward and out. FI, FO. A volley starts with a forward up swing, and then goes back and forth between forward and down, and back and down. FD, BD, FD, BD. The Four Corners is a four crack pattern that goes in four different directions. Let’s start with the frontal flick on your dominant side. FI, BO, FO, BI.

Now, how do we differentiate between wind-up swings and cracking motions? An easy way is to use lowercase for the swings, and UPPER CASE for the cracks. Lets see what that looks like for our previous examples:

Cattleman’s: fu,FD Overhead: fi,FO Volley: fu,FD,BD,FD,BD Four Corners: FI,BO,FO,BI

This notation definitely isn’t perfect, because it misses some key factors. First, it doesn’t account for positioning of the whip around your body. Second, it doesn’t notate differences in timing. And it also misses movements where the whip goes diagonally through all three planes, like the way the arrowhead works.

Now, we don’t NECESSARILY need to identify these factors. In siteswap (juggling notation), all that is addressed is the height of the balls relative to each other. It completely ignores hand positioning, whether balls are being caught behind the back, and a varitety of other things. But it does do a great job at explaining the basis of juggling patterns, and that is useful enough for the community to communicate and explore new ideas.

Let me know what you guys think!

John Cantin - 2022-2-21 3:30pm CST

For vert plane cracks we would need to define

• the plane as left/right/front/back
• rotation overhand/underhand/none (none or maybe "rolling" for flicks?)
• target front/back/left/right/up

For horz plane we would need to define

• the plane overhead/underfoot/center (center would be for a forehand flick)
• rotation forehand/backhand/none (none or maybe "rolling" for flicks?)
• target front/back/left/right

Can we ignore the diagonal planes, at least for now?

Something to indicate a change in rotation for cutbacks

and the real question... is this worth the effort?